| Posted by: eandcdad at April 25, 2008, 9:04 am | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | I'm not trying to support the position of either side here, just give the facts on how "Imagine" is used in the film. At one point someone, it might have been PZ Myers, said something along the lines (and I'm paraphrasing heavily and may have it wrong) that he hopes there is a time when people won't need religion or will view it as just a nice social gathering with no one actually believing in God. Again, that's a poorly remembered summary. Then there is a voice over from Ben Stein saying that this position is nothing new and echos what John Lennon said 30 years ago. Then there is home movie footage of a boy, I think it was Lennon, or maybe it was just some random kid and this part of the song plays on the soundtrack. "Imagine there's no Heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today" I'm pretty sure they play the whole verse, although it may cut off after "sky," but I don't think so. It's the actual Lennon version, not a cover. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Milo at April 21, 2008, 4:37 am | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: There are real limits, however, to how entertaining propaganda can be, especially to someone who is not in the choir you are preaching to. Can I have an Amen. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Milo at April 19, 2008, 12:29 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | But for so many people, those are their only sources of (mis?)information, if you can even call it that. It is staggering how large the percentage of Americans know nothing of even our historic high points, anything about the Constitution or even who their reps in Congress are. "'Where does the government get the money it spends?' Yes, I know that. They print it in Washington..... D.C." | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Josh at April 19, 2008, 5:48 am | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | I do not get the idea. It's satire, jokes, humor. It has a place in political discourse as much as it does anywhere else. And in the case of the Late Show Top 10, it's particularly harmless satire, gags, jokes, humor. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Milo at April 19, 2008, 5:02 am | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | satire n. 1.a. A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit. By today's standards for couch potatoes being spoon fed thought in sound bytes, they are works of literature. Quote: Al Gore's Top Ten good things about being Vice-President 10. Police escort gets you to the movies faster. 9. You know that game, Tetherball? I got to play tetherball with the inventor of tetherball. 8. After they sign a bill, theres lots of free pens. 7. If you close your left eye, the seal on the podium reads "President of the United States." 6. I get intellectual property rights to my speeches. 5. Dan Quayle and Gerald Ford are pretty easy to beat during Vice President's week on "Jeopardy." 4. You don't have to be funny to get invited on the Letterman show. 3. You get to eat all the french fries the President can't get to. 2. Don't have to be good speller to get the job. 1. Secret Service code name: "Buttafuoco." Obviously this one had limited influence, but you get the idea. Admittedly t... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Milo at April 18, 2008, 11:00 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Josh) David Letterman's Top Ten Lists? Really? I had no idea he was so evil. Didn't say that. He's only an entertainer. I'm saying that a large portion of the electorate is lazy and ignorant and feeds on such pablum, calling it Truth cause it makes them feel so good. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Josh at April 18, 2008, 10:41 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Milo) The more reasonable are a vast majority, but also much less vocal, and even many of them/us tend to form opinions for or against such issues based on fallout from propaganda like Expelled or jokes and top ten lists on David Letterman. David Letterman's Top Ten Lists? Really? I had no idea he was so evil. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Wiggum at April 18, 2008, 4:39 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Josh) Ben Stein isn't a respected anything. He's a pitch man. He's barely a step above the Dell Computer kid. What has he accomplished that I should respect? I've got agree with Mack here, and I'm not saying anything to equate this to the ability to make a documentary, but dismissing Stein out of hand because he showed up in Ferris Bueller isn't giving him his fair due Quote: In 1973 and 1974, he was a speech writer and lawyer for Richard Nixon at The White House and then for Gerald Ford. (He did NOT write the line, "I am not a crook.") He has been a columnist and editorial writer for The Wall Street Journal, a syndicated columnist for The Los Angeles Herald Examiner (R.I.P.) and King Features Syndicate, and a frequent contributor to Barrons, where his articles about the ethics of management buyouts and issues of fraud in the Milken Drexel junk bond scheme drew major national attention. He has been a regular columnist for Los Angeles Magazine, New York Magazine, E! Online, and mos... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Milo at April 18, 2008, 9:50 am | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Josh) Plus, again, Al Gore is more worthy of respect that Ben Stein. I must disagree that either one is worthy of respect. How could I respect someone who "invented the Internet", sells carbon credits to himself to cover the "carbon footprint" of his jets, limos and mansions, or shows icebergs being calved off the Greenland ice cap as evidence of global warming when it's just the opposite. The issue of Intelligent Design has gotten totally bunged up by the emotionalism (and dare I say ignorance) on both sides. It was and is a valid area of scientific inquiry, but it has been hijacked by the Creationists who modified to to fit with their vision of a personal, interactive God. Everybody gets their backs up, leaving the real science of the issue, as with global warming, to be suffocated in the middle. As Tay seems to imply, in this un-sane world we are guided by the emotions of the fanatics and extremists among us, but whose fault is that? The more reasonable are a vast majority, but... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Mack at April 18, 2008, 7:06 am | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Josh) What has he accomplished that I should respect? I would say formerly being employed as a speech writer for the President of the United States is worth respecting. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Captain Murphy at April 18, 2008, 1:38 am | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Josh) Again, how would they know? Most critics NEVER discuss their politics or political viewpoints at ALL. Well, the only critic I trust is you, Josh. So looks like you have to watch it and review it. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Captain Murphy at April 18, 2008, 1:36 am | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Josh) I don't remember, but I know they didn't send me the same kind of propaganda bullshit that this movie did. So I doubt it. Plus, again, Al Gore is more worthy of respect that Ben Stein. Again, Celebrity Pitch Man versus former Vice President of the United States. Yeah, but Stein has been in movies and TV since the 80's... Gore is a politician. Plus, Gore is kind of a dufus. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Josh at April 18, 2008, 12:55 am | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Captain Murphy) Well, not to sound like to much of a jackass, but, I was listening to the radio a few months ago and a conservative movie critic had died, and the news casters were talking about him being the last conservative movie critic... And I'm pretty sure they did more research than I could or would ever care too. So, yeah, that's really all I got, other than seeing reading a lot of reviews for movies for the past couple of years and not having any real memory of an of them being to the right, or even in the middle for that matter. Again, how would they know? Most critics NEVER discuss their politics or political viewpoints at ALL. There's no way they can research that. Critics don't normally talk about that stuff at ALL. You wouldn't know either. I can only think of one or two critics offhand who I have any idea of their political leanings, and one of them is a conservative. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Josh at April 18, 2008, 12:52 am | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Captain Murphy) Were you guys this critical of Gore and An Inconvenient Truth before you saw it? I don't remember, but I know they didn't send me the same kind of propaganda bullshit that this movie did. So I doubt it. Plus, again, Al Gore is more worthy of respect that Ben Stein. Again, Celebrity Pitch Man versus former Vice President of the United States. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Captain Murphy at April 18, 2008, 12:44 am | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Well, not to sound like to much of a jackass, but, I was listening to the radio a few months ago and a conservative movie critic had died, and the news casters were talking about him being the last conservative movie critic... And I'm pretty sure they did more research than I could or would ever care too. So, yeah, that's really all I got, other than seeing reading a lot of reviews for movies for the past couple of years and not having any real memory of an of them being to the right, or even in the middle for that matter. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Josh at April 18, 2008, 12:38 am | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Captain Murphy) most of the critics on there are pretty liberal guys and girls, so even if the movie is bias, wouldn't the bias go both ways? How do you know that? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Captain Murphy at April 18, 2008, 12:26 am | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Tay, not that I don't usually read reviews and look to them for guidance, but most of the critics on there are pretty liberal guys and girls, so even if the movie is bias, wouldn't the bias go both ways? And I see what you mean, Josh, about him not making anything else... But it's not like he is a nobody. I mean, way before I knew he was a conservative I already liked the guy and thought he was funny. I figured most people felt the same was. He has earned enough respect from me just being a likable guy before on Ben Steins Money and Ferris Beuler (Hell, Even the Clear Eyes commercials) for me to see whatever he makes. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Josh at April 17, 2008, 11:39 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Captain Murphy) Is Ben Stein not a respectable documentary film maker just because he hasn't made one yet? If this turns out to be a good film, then will he be respectable? Ben Stein isn't a respected anything. He's a pitch man. He's barely a step above the Dell Computer kid. What has he accomplished that I should respect? Yes, if this turned out to be a great documentary he'd certainly be well on his way to being worthy of respect. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: crappertay at April 17, 2008, 11:11 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | "For a film about American freedom of expression and the necessity for open dialogue, it's hard to imagine Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed being more one-sided, narrow-minded, and intellectually dishonest." "A cynical attempt to sucker Christian conservatives into thinking they're losing the 'intelligent design' debate because of academic 'prejudice.'" "The film's flippant approach undermines the seriousness of its discourse, trading less in facts than in emotional appeals." "Stein claims to denounce the tyranny of dogma, then browbeats us with his own." "[i]n a saner universe... you could scoff at Stein and dismiss him and not give this propagandistic nonsense another thought. But... [y]ou need to see this movie because these people are not going away..." "Stein spends the first half of the movie setting himself a trap, and the second half squirming in it." "No intelligence allowed, indeed, as Ben Stein misguidedly crusades against what he perceives as the science community’s slavish devotion to nat... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Captain Murphy at April 17, 2008, 5:31 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Josh) Yes, but both are highly respected award winning directors. Not the same comparison. Well, you know what I meant. Is Ben Stein not a respectable documentary film maker just because he hasn't made one yet? If this turns out to be a good film, then will he be respectable? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Josh at April 17, 2008, 5:30 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | If people actually see this movie, I think Ben Stein's likability is going to evaporate rather quickly. I already hate him, just from the shit he's been spewing in their marketing materials. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Milo at April 17, 2008, 5:29 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Josh) If Michael Moore makes a documentary, there's more reason to see it than if Ben Stein makes one, regardless of the subject matter. Yeah, on a scale of 1-10, 1.2 vs .9. I do agree that Ben Stein is much more likeable, but also that making documentaries isn't a popularity contest--unless you're Al Gore. All of 'em play fast an loose with the truth. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Josh at April 17, 2008, 5:24 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Captain Murphy) Oliver Stone is an Academy-Award winning director, but I'd much rather see a Wes Anderson movie. Yes, but both are highly respected award winning directors. Not the same comparison. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Captain Murphy at April 17, 2008, 5:23 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | Quote: Originally Posted by Josh) It's not a popularity contest. Michael Moore is an established, award winning, documentarian... whether you like him or not. Ben Stein is that guy from that game show who was in Ferris Bueller. If Michael Moore makes a documentary, there's more reason to see it than if Ben Stein makes one, regardless of the subject matter.
Oliver Stone is an Academy-Award winning director, but I'd much rather see a Wes Anderson movie. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Volante at April 17, 2008, 3:39 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Josh) It's not a popularity contest. Michael Moore is an established, award winning, documentarian... whether you like him or not. Ben Stein is that guy from that game show who was in Ferris Bueller. If Michael Moore makes a documentary, there's more reason to see it than if Ben Stein makes one, regardless of the subject matter. Don't forget The Mask! And the Clear Eyes commercials! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Josh at April 17, 2008, 3:35 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | It's not a popularity contest. Michael Moore is an established, award winning, documentarian... whether you like him or not. Ben Stein is that guy from that game show who was in Ferris Bueller. If Michael Moore makes a documentary, there's more reason to see it than if Ben Stein makes one, regardless of the subject matter. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Captain Murphy at April 17, 2008, 3:13 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | I'll see it tomorrow... If it sucks, than I'll say it sucks. I don't agree with really any of Michael Moore's point of views, but I still watched Sicko. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Josh at April 17, 2008, 3:01 pm | | Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Forum: Film Hobbit | | You mean that it's unfair that we're judging the validity of it without seeing it, not that we're judging whether or not its worth seeing. Well to that I'd say, I don't need to read and listen to all Nazi propaganda to know I don't agree with it. In my case though, I'm making my judgement based on the contact I've had with people promoting the film, their tactics in promoting it, and the way those people talk about it. It sounds like Nazi propaganda, and I want no part of it. It's certainly not to be taken seriously, in my estimation. | | Static Link |
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