| Posted by: redundo at December 21, 2007, 6:19 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | I went to see the Golden Compass last night, i felt it was my duty as an atheist to do so... No, wait thats not right. I went to see the film because i wanted a few hours worth of fictional entertainment and storytelling. The films ok and not much more then that. It definitely helps to have read the book, but if you have then the ending is just annoying. Kind of a catch 22. The supporting cast was excellent all round and the daemons were wonderfully woven into the scenes, but there were too many other flaws to make it a good film. Characters kept dropping in and out of the story deus-ex-machina like and anytime the film built up to a great scene it fluffed it's opportunity. Neither the fight of the Polar Bears or the battle with the Tartar army were as good as they should have been. And the happy, clappy ending is going to make things particularly difficult for the next film. If there's going to be one. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: crappertay at December 21, 2007, 3:32 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Always on the cusp of current affairs and forward thinking, the Pope has predictably denounced The Golden Compass... two weeks after most people care and more have forgotten the movie even existed. Quote: Catholic Church officials at The Vatican have condemned new family film The Golden Compass, stating the movie is anti-Christian. The religious leaders claim the movie, based on author Philip Pullman's fantasy book Northern Lights, promotes a cold and hopeless world without God. In an article in The Vatican's newspaper l'Osservatore Romano, Pullman is also heavily criticized for writing the book. Catholic leaders urged the faithful to boycott the movie when it was released earlier this month. The Golden Compass director Chris Weitz stripped all references to the church from the movie, fearing he'd offend religious film fans. But it seems his efforts weren't enough. In Pullman's fantasy world, the Church's governing body is linked to cruel experiments on children. In The Vatican newspaper editorial, the film ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Abscynthe at December 13, 2007, 8:59 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | *sigh* I know this is probably already been answered a dozen times, but why are they so afraid of people turning away from the church? Is it because they won't be able to live large any longer? Or the church will die out? The church has been around for millenia, I don't think they're in danger of dissolving because a few people question them. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: crappertay at December 13, 2007, 1:38 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | First stage to controlling the world, controlling the media: Quote: Without explanation, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has retracted on its website a positive review of The Golden Compass that appeared in Catholic newspapers last week. The review had appeared to counterbalance claims by the Catholic League, the nation's largest Catholic lay group, that it served as an introduction to atheism expounded in the trilogy of books on which the movie is based. The League had urged a boycott of the film. In an interview with the Baltimore Sun, Jim Lackey general news editor of the Catholic News Service, run by the bishops' conference, acknowledged that he was told to remove the review from the CNS website. "It's hard for me to categorize whether or not it was a surprise," he told the newspaper. Meanwhile, the church's Raleigh, NC diocese on Tuesday warned pastors in a letter about the possible ramifications of the film. "The concern is that once a child gets 'hooked' on the film or the books, then the next... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: fafhrd at December 11, 2007, 3:49 pm | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Milo) Thanks, but it looks like there's not much point. He's talking apples (Europe, which I'm not prepared to defend), and I'm talking oranges (US). Sorry for the distraction. Tis ok, I'd side with you on the US portion of the debate anyways- the US generally avoided alot of the problems with the Enlightenment and Romanticism. In that regard, our founding fathers were far ahead of Europe, and really, still are. As for The Golden Compass, is it's popularity (as books) be more in Europe/global than in the US? Fafhrd | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Josh at December 11, 2007, 3:40 pm | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Yeah, they're saying it's doing much better internationally as a whole. Maybe it was the Christian thing that had something to do with it. I really didn't think so... but... when something which Christians are boycotting does better internationally sometimes that's why. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Milo at December 11, 2007, 2:44 pm | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Abscynthe) We could always move it to Hefty. Thanks, but it looks like there's not much point. He's talking apples (Europe, which I'm not prepared to defend), and I'm talking oranges (US). Sorry for the distraction. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: redundo at December 11, 2007, 9:19 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Ok, won't be seeing this. Instead i'm driving 30 miles this afternoon to catch Nightmare Before Christmas in 3D. Once i knew it was playing it shoved Golden Compass to the back of my mental queue. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Abscynthe at December 11, 2007, 7:52 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by fafhrd) Cool on the move No, I'm not. I'm saying that their experience didn't happen in Europe. Robespierre did, instead. Fafhrd We could always move it to Hefty. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Sarkazm at December 10, 2007, 9:53 pm | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Saw this movie... I am an Athiest... Movie sucked... really not much else to say about it. Maybe the book is better? I read a lot and I am not sure I want to sink too much time into it. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Deus Ex Machina at December 10, 2007, 10:36 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Volante) Never count chickens before hatching. Titanic opened with a ~$28 mil weekend. ...and one time I make that reference I'll be justified in saying it. Hasn't happened yet, but I'm naively hopeful sometimes... First, in 2007 dollars / ticket prices, Titanic made more like $45 million. Second, despite becoming tiresome from overexposure, Titanic was an amazing movie which prompted a TON of word of mouth to see it on its second weekend. The Golden Compass is only slightly better than mediocre. It's just not going to happen for Compass. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Volante at December 10, 2007, 9:56 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by masterthes) Yeah, 25 mil is not a good opening weekend for a movie like this Never count chickens before hatching. Titanic opened with a ~$28 mil weekend. ...and one time I make that reference I'll be justified in saying it. Hasn't happened yet, but I'm naively hopeful sometimes... | | Static Link |
| Posted by: redundo at December 10, 2007, 5:14 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Has this thread in any of its 5 pages discussed the movie in question, or just topics surrounding the movie? I'll be seeing it during the week, but after skimming through this thread i still don't know anyones opinion on it. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: masterthes at December 9, 2007, 7:24 pm | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Anyway, just got back from this. Fairly decent, although it felt kinda rushed. I think they could've afforded to add another half hour to it. that way, we could've probably been able to see the scene with Lyra and the rest of the witches, and I think they should've ended it where the book ended. I thought Ian did a fine job as Iorek. Wasn't my first choice for him, but it worked | | Static Link |
| Posted by: crappertay at December 9, 2007, 12:55 pm | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | New Line's top grossing movie list is a depressing read. 3 LOTR movies.
3 Rush Hour movies
2 Austin Powers movies. Jesus, Rush Hour 2 is still their biggest grossing movie after LOTR. The company New Line currently keeps in the Studio chart stakes is with the likes of Rogue Pictures, Lionsgate and Fox Searchlight, all small scale operations. After LOTR, as you mentioned, with their oodles of cash New Line should've been positioning themselves to actively compete with the likes of Fox and Paramount for more than just a blip because that's where they already were around 2002/3. Now they've slumped back down to the doldrums where they were in the late 90s. They've barely made as much money this year as they did in 2000, before LOTR. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: fafhrd at December 9, 2007, 12:48 pm | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by crappertay) That LOTR money payed for lots of expensive movies that never turned a decent profit. Son of Mask, Birth, Domino, A History of Violence, Just Friends, The New World, After The Sunset, Blade: Trinity, The Man, Monster-in-Law, even Snakes on a Plane underperformed, the list of tanked movies is huge. Their biggest scores since LOTR was Wedding Crashers I think. I don't think any other movie they released broke the 100 million mark. Most made barely over the 50. In 4 years, that's pretty bad. Domestically A History of Violence made $31 mil, overall $60 mil, and it had a budget of $32 mil. So you can definitely say that underpreformed, but didn't screw up too much. Monster in Law had a $43 million budget, made $83 mil domestically, and globally it made $154 mil. So that's also a winner. Domestically Blade: Trinity made $52 mil which is easily under it's $65 mil budget, but globally it made $129 million. So it hurt domestically but globally it did good. Snakes on a Plane def... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: crappertay at December 9, 2007, 11:58 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | That LOTR money payed for lots of expensive movies that never turned a decent profit. Son of Mask, Birth, Domino, A History of Violence, Just Friends, The New World, After The Sunset, Blade: Trinity, The Man, Monster-in-Law, even Snakes on a Plane underperformed, the list of tanked movies is huge. Their biggest scores since LOTR was Wedding Crashers I think. I don't think any other movie they released broke the 100 million mark. Most made barely over the 50. In 4 years, that's pretty bad. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: fafhrd at December 9, 2007, 11:54 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by crappertay) No, it's more likely they'll decide the fantasy genre's dead and ditch the project while retaining the rights for another X number of years, stopping anyone else doing it. They might not be able to afford to do The Hobbit right if Golden Compass tanks hard, as Josh said, they are in pretty dire straits post-LOTR. Let's see how much this makes before New Line decides to throw in the proverbial towel. How are they in dire straits, if they made oodles of money off of LOTR? Fafhrd | | Static Link |
| Posted by: fafhrd at December 9, 2007, 11:52 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Milo) OK, I'm all for moving. (Meanwhile, are you saying that Jefferson, Paine, Madison, Adams, Franklin etc., even Washington, weren't heavily influenced by and proponents of the Enlightenment, which in turn translated directly to our Declaration of Independence and Constitution--which, granted, were all that remained after their flash in the pan?) Cool on the move No, I'm not. I'm saying that their experience didn't happen in Europe. Robespierre did, instead. Fafhrd | | Static Link |
| Posted by: crappertay at December 9, 2007, 9:55 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by fafhrd) Will this pull New Line more towards getting The Hobbit done the way we want it done? Fafhrd No, it's more likely they'll decide the fantasy genre's dead and ditch the project while retaining the rights for another X number of years, stopping anyone else doing it. They might not be able to afford to do The Hobbit right if Golden Compass tanks hard, as Josh said, they are in pretty dire straits post-LOTR. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Milo at December 9, 2007, 6:40 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by fafhrd) Yes, let's move this discussion to another thread/forum. And the Enlightenment's failures and the Age of Reason was largely in Europe, btw. In the US, we actually managed to avoid it. OK, I'm all for moving. (Meanwhile, are you saying that Jefferson, Paine, Madison, Adams, Franklin etc., even Washington, weren't heavily influenced by and proponents of the Enlightenment, which in turn translated directly to our Declaration of Independence and Constitution--which, granted, were all that remained after their flash in the pan?) | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Jesus Juice at December 9, 2007, 4:42 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Whatever it takes to make the Hobbit I don't care. They could slaughter orphans as long as they promise to make The Hobbit, and I'd be cool with it. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: fafhrd at December 9, 2007, 3:15 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Josh) Yeah, New Line is in trouble. I've heard they were banking pretty heavily on this movie, they haven't really done well post-LOTR. Not really surprised. People are getting wise to all these third-rate fantasy movies. I doubt it's failure has anything to do with the lame-duck controversy surrounding it. Will this pull New Line more towards getting The Hobbit done the way we want it done? Fafhrd | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Josh at December 9, 2007, 2:49 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Yeah, New Line is in trouble. I've heard they were banking pretty heavily on this movie, they haven't really done well post-LOTR. Not really surprised. People are getting wise to all these third-rate fantasy movies. I doubt it's failure has anything to do with the lame-duck controversy surrounding it. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Deus Ex Machina at December 9, 2007, 2:32 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Wow. Golden Compass only made $9 million on Friday. Budget is $150 million according to BOMOJO, but I've heard $180. Either way, New Line is going to take a big hit on this one. Not good news for the other two films. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: fafhrd at December 8, 2007, 12:17 pm | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Milo) At the risk of an over-emphasis on just one of the twin threads going on here, I gotta ask, what dangers? The Age of Reason, at least in this country, was little more than a blip in our history that lasted only long enough to get us jump-started. It was then bullied into the shadows as effectively as Paine was hounded on his deathbed to recant his deism, followed by his grave being vandalized and his memory desecrated. We were well on the way at that point to Calhoun's near theocratic coup which was narrowly averted under Jackson. Yes, let's move this discussion to another thread/forum. And the Enlightenment's failures and the Age of Reason was largely in Europe, btw. In the US, we actually managed to avoid it. Fafhrd | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Milo at December 8, 2007, 3:41 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by Abscynthe) I'd be interested in that discussion as well, but perhaps we should split it off into a separate thread. There really isn't an appropriate forum on the board for it, o/w I'd have taken it there. I posted my response only to show that there's a legitimate opposing opinion to what had already been brought up. Continue here, move it (to...?) or drop it, whatever the moderators, admin and/or the common interest prefer. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Deus Ex Machina at December 7, 2007, 7:25 pm | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by crappertay) As you point out a child can't chose to be Christian any more than they can choose to be atheist, only the parent can influence them to either believe a certain way or to ALLOW them to know all the possibilities and let them ask any question they like. Only then, as they grow up, can they make a true informed, unbiased choice. I don't think you're giving kids enough credit. You don't suddenly and magically gain the ability to make informed, unbiased choices when you turn a certain age. Kids learn and grow and have their own personalities from day one. Parents can help shape that, but as most people on this site can attest, you're going to turn into your own person, no matter what. And allowing kids too know all the possibilities is fine, but parents are always going to be biased in favor of what they believe is best for their kids. Whether its religion, sex, drugs, smoking, politics, entertainment...parents are going to have an influence on their children. An atheist f... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: crappertay at December 7, 2007, 6:29 pm | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | The parents are already influencing them to believe Christianity though which is no different than a parent encouraging a child to not believe in God. How is one better than the other? Why should a child (myself at the time included), spend all my most influential years being taught something and THEN have to choose to unlearn it through my own free will? It seem silly to me to say lets teach these kids about God and hey, when they're old enough to think for themselves, if they want to stop believing it, then fine. You've just admitted influencing kids who can't think for themselves in to believing Christian doctorine. As you point out a child can't chose to be Christian any more than they can choose to be atheist, only the parent can influence them to either believe a certain way or to ALLOW them to know all the possibilities and let them ask any question they like. Only then, as they grow up, can they make a true informed, unbiased choice. Problem is, by the time most are old enough to think for themselves... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: curious01 at December 7, 2007, 3:31 pm | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Because Christian groups are calling for a boycott of the movie anyway on the basis that they're afraid someone might watch the movie and then be encouraged to go read the awful, scary book... which... yikes! might make them think. The problem isn't that catholics are afraid of people thinking it is the children that they don't want thinking in that way. Children are very impressionable and in a way that is like brain washing them. The same way kids watch spiderman and start dressing like him they might start to think they should not believe in God. The difference between the two is that with spiderman they will eventually realize that they can't be him because in the real world no one gets bit by a radioactive spider and gets super powers. However, you can stop believing in God and that would just be the start of it. Now if the kids later on in life decide to become athesist and they haven't read the books, then that was their decision to make and no one influenced them to do it. Nicole Kidman doesn't think... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: curious01 at December 7, 2007, 3:24 pm | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | First of all I've been watching lots of interviews on this movie and on one of them there was an atheist and a Catholic and the problem seems to be that neither of them know how to put their views aside. The atheist said that atheism is not about killing God. The author of the book seems to think that God is horrible. That doesn't mean that all atheist think that way. Atheism is defined as the doctrine or belief that there is no God. The fact that the author wants to write these books is not the problem. The problem is that if you were to show children these books they would be influenced by them. No matter what religion you are as a parent you would not want your 6-8 year old children to read books that have sex in them. If you are Catholic or any religion that believes in God you would not want your children to read them until they are old enough to know what they believe. If the book was about how killing was good and being happy was bad then people wouldn't want their kids to read it either. It is not ju... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Milo at December 7, 2007, 6:21 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by fafhrd) (I just spent an entire Intellectual History class about the dangers of the Enlightenment and the Age of Reason). At the risk of an over-emphasis on just one of the twin threads going on here, I gotta ask, what dangers? The Age of Reason, at least in this country, was little more than a blip in our history that lasted only long enough to get us jump-started. It was then bullied into the shadows as effectively as Paine was hounded on his deathbed to recant his deism, followed by his grave being vandalized and his memory desecrated. We were well on the way at that point to Calhoun's near theocratic coup which was narrowly averted under Jackson. Some segments of the Church get upset by a movie like this (or it's possible sequels) because they can't suppress it as effectively as they had been able to the Age of Reason, or to sweep their malfeasance under the rug of revisionist history. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Josh at December 7, 2007, 12:35 am | | Topic: The Golden Compass - Discuss It Forum: Film Hobbit | | Quote: Originally Posted by phenotype31) So...is Lyra's betrayel still in the movie? and is it handled at all properly? I'm looking to Josh on this, but I'd actually be interested to hear the impressions of someone who hasn't read the books as well. I'm a bit fuzzy on the books... been a few months. You mean with Roger? No. The movie ends before the book does. SPOILER . . . . The movie ends with Lyra rescuing Roger and the other kids from the Gobblers. . . . . . END SPOILER | | Static Link |
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