| Posted by: Guest at December 16, 2007, 12:44 am | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | On Dec 11, 7:42 pm, moviePig wrote: Quote: GOODGERMANis indeed noir (almost campily), and pretty much gives us Soderbergh's definition of it, I bet. I need someone to explain the ending. I looked up Soderbergh's IMDB biography to see where The Good German fit in after Bubble, which I loved. ( Interestingly, Bubble isn't listed in his credits...which I thought might have had something to do with the curious frame at the end of the DVD saying only "Section 8." Section 8 is a housing project for underprivileged people). Anyway, I googled this group and agree that the film works on a plot level, which is why the "surprise" ending confuses me. (Do I need spoilers for a year-old film?) So-- If the character who turns out to be the good German (in Tom Cervo's definition of the term--the 40's contemporary, ironic one) is really as bad as he/she appears, why did he/she devote such energy in the...tunnel? Up until the very ending, the plot made sense. Is it that this character was SO evil, he/she used even the "secret"... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Agent Smith at December 12, 2007, 7:26 am | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | Harkness wrote: On Dec 11, 4:43�pm, Harkness wrote: On Dec 11, 4:26 pm, Agent Smith wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Ban g Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off G et Carter, The Lookout. �What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. �:] recent? -- at least two of those films are �ten years old. anyway, they don't make film noirs any more because film noir is period. This might be a dumb question but when noirs were being made during the post-war period, was it a recognized genre, or did it only become one in retrospect? When people went to the movies and went to see something like Out of the Past or whatever, did they have the same awareness of what they were going to see and all the same preconceived genre expectations as, oh, teenage slasher fans or gross-out stoner comedy f... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Agent Smith at December 12, 2007, 7:23 am | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | josephmramirez@netzero.com wrote in news:25c1f068-de8c-47b5-b0bd-da9cc5884e35@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com: Quote:On Dec 11, 4:26 pm, Agent Smith wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. :] Disregarding "recent" for the sake of discussion, Box Office Mojo list 56 films since 1980 in its Neo Noir category. The newest are "Sin City" (no. 1 in non-inflation-adjusted box office in the category), "The Black Dahlia," "Hollywoodland," "Brick" (kiddie neo noir?), and "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang." http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=neonoir.htm I wouldn't call Sin City noir, because I feel that its status as a comic book adaptation exclusively dominates all ancillary categories into which i... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Agent Smith at December 11, 2007, 8:52 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | moviePig wrote: moviePig wrote: moviePig wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. :] THE LOOKOUT and L.A. CONFIDENTIAL maybe... but surely not NO COUNTRY, KISS KISS, or SHORTY. Afaik, noir takes more than a wry plot with a less-than-ebullient outcome. E.g., you need fatalism... and underexposed film... Well, Roeper and Friend pronounced both No Country and Kiss Kiss to be noir, and Shorty was written by Elmore Leonard. I think that's enough to make them noir. I've read tons of Elmore... without ever once thinking of noir, iirc Of course, I certainly wouldn't gainsay Roeper (at least without a nearby Friend of my own)... but I think noir is about streetlamps and/ or headlights, usuall... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Agent Smith at December 11, 2007, 8:11 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | moviePig wrote: On Dec 11, 4:43�pm, Harkness wrote: On Dec 11, 4:26 pm, Agent Smith wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Ban g Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off G et Carter, The Lookout. �What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. �:] recent? -- at least two of those films are �ten years old. anyway, they don't make film noirs any more because film noir is period. This might be a dumb question but when noirs were being made during the post-war period, was it a recognized genre, or did it only become one in retrospect? When people went to the movies and went to see something like Out of the Past or whatever, did they have the same awareness of what they were going to see and all the same preconceived genre expectations as, oh, teenage slasher fans or gross-out stoner comedy f... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Agent Smith at December 11, 2007, 8:06 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | moviePig wrote: moviePig wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. :] THE LOOKOUT and L.A. CONFIDENTIAL maybe... but surely not NO COUNTRY, KISS KISS, or SHORTY. Afaik, noir takes more than a wry plot with a less-than-ebullient outcome. E.g., you need fatalism... and underexposed film... Well, Roeper and Friend pronounced both No Country and Kiss Kiss to be noir, and Shorty was written by Elmore Leonard. I think that's enough to make them noir. I've read tons of Elmore... without ever once thinking of noir, iirc Of course, I certainly wouldn't gainsay Roeper (at least without a nearby Friend of my own)... but I think noir is about streetlamps and/ or headlights, usually reflected in w... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Agent Smith at December 11, 2007, 6:22 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | Harkness wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. :] recent? -- at least two of those films are ten years old. anyway, they don't make film noirs any more because film noir is period. Nah, you've just gotta get used to the color, and they've been creeping back toward b&w for at least those ten years. With The Good German (which I forgot from my list) they've finally realized that the washed out monochromatic look was just B&W in disguise, so they decided to call a spade a spade. Hopefully they'll use that spade to keep burying bodies. :] Quote:They make neo-noir or they get all retro -- L.A. Confidential is the latter, The Lookout and Brick are the former. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Agent Smith at December 11, 2007, 6:06 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | moviePig wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. :] THE LOOKOUT and L.A. CONFIDENTIAL maybe... but surely not NO COUNTRY, KISS KISS, or SHORTY. Afaik, noir takes more than a wry plot with a less-than-ebullient outcome. E.g., you need fatalism... and underexposed film... Well, Roeper and Friend pronounced both No Country and Kiss Kiss to be noir, and Shorty was written by Elmore Leonard. I think that's enough to make them noir. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Guest at December 11, 2007, 5:34 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | On Dec 11, 9:35 pm, "art...@yahoo.com" wrote: Quote:On Dec 11, 4:26 pm, Agent Smith wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. :] Brick? (Haven't seen it. It's supposed to be "High School Noir") "Brick" is pretty entertaining, although the dialogue is so stylized that it's occasionally difficult to follow. Watching it is a bit like reading James Ellroy's "White Jazz." Joe Ramirez | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Agent Smith at December 11, 2007, 5:26 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. :] | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Harkness at December 11, 2007, 5:26 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | On Dec 11, 5:33 pm, nick wrote: Quote:On Dec 11, 4:43�pm, Harkness wrote: On Dec 11, 4:26 pm, Agent Smith wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. �What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. �:] recent? -- at least two of those films are �ten years old. anyway, they don't make film noirs any more because film noir is period. This might be a dumb question but when noirs were being made during the post-war period, was it a recognized genre, or did it only become one in retrospect? When people went to the movies and went to see something like Out of the Past or whatever, did they have the same awareness of what they were going to see and all the same preconceived genre expectations as, oh, teenage slasher fans or gros... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: artyw2@yahoo.com at December 11, 2007, 5:26 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | On Dec 11, 4:26 pm, Agent Smith wrote: Quote:I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. :] Brick? (Haven't seen it. It's supposed to be "High School Noir") U Turn (Same year as LA Confidential. Not all that great, though). | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Guest at December 11, 2007, 5:26 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | On Dec 11, 4:26 pm, Agent Smith wrote: Quote:I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. :] Disregarding "recent" for the sake of discussion, Box Office Mojo list 56 films since 1980 in its Neo Noir category. The newest are "Sin City" (no. 1 in non-inflation-adjusted box office in the category), "The Black Dahlia," "Hollywoodland," "Brick" (kiddie neo noir?), and "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang." http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=neonoir.htm Joe Ramirez | | Static Link |
| Posted by: moviePig at December 11, 2007, 5:26 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | On Dec 11, 7:06 pm, Agent Smith wrote: Quote:moviePig wrote: moviePig wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. :] THE LOOKOUT and L.A. CONFIDENTIAL maybe... but surely not NO COUNTRY, KISS KISS, or SHORTY. Afaik, noir takes more than a wry plot with a less-than-ebullient outcome. E.g., you need fatalism... and underexposed film... Well, Roeper and Friend pronounced both No Country and Kiss Kiss to be noir, and Shorty was written by Elmore Leonard. I think that's enough to make them noir. I've read tons of Elmore... without ever once thinking of noir, iirc Of course, I certainly wouldn't gainsay Roeper (at least without a nearby Friend of my own)... but I think noir is about streetlam... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: moviePig at December 11, 2007, 5:26 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | On Dec 11, 6:26 pm, nick wrote: Quote:On Dec 11, 6:10�pm, moviePig wrote: On Dec 11, 5:06 pm, Agent Smith wrote: moviePig wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. �What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. �:] THE LOOKOUT and L.A. CONFIDENTIAL maybe... but surely not NO COUNTRY, KISS KISS, or SHORTY. �Afaik, noir takes more than a wry plot with a less-than-ebullient outcome. �E.g., you need fatalism... and underexposed film... Well, Roeper and Friend pronounced both No Country and Kiss Kiss to be noir, and Shorty was written by Elmore Leonard. �I think that's enough to make them noir. I've read tons of Elmore... without ever once thinking of noir, iirc Of course, I certainly wouldn't gainsay Roeper (at least wit... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: nick at December 11, 2007, 5:26 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | On Dec 11, 6:10�pm, moviePig wrote: Quote:On Dec 11, 5:06 pm, Agent Smith wrote: moviePig wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. �What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. �:] THE LOOKOUT and L.A. CONFIDENTIAL maybe... but surely not NO COUNTRY, KISS KISS, or SHORTY. �Afaik, noir takes more than a wry plot with a less-than-ebullient outcome. �E.g., you need fatalism... and underexposed film... Well, Roeper and Friend pronounced both No Country and Kiss Kiss to be noir, and Shorty was written by Elmore Leonard. �I think that's enough to make them noir. I've read tons of Elmore... without ever once thinking of noir, iirc Of course, I certainly wouldn't gainsay Roeper (at least without a nearby Friend of my own)..... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: moviePig at December 11, 2007, 5:26 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | On Dec 11, 5:06 pm, Agent Smith wrote: Quote:moviePig wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. :] THE LOOKOUT and L.A. CONFIDENTIAL maybe... but surely not NO COUNTRY, KISS KISS, or SHORTY. Afaik, noir takes more than a wry plot with a less-than-ebullient outcome. E.g., you need fatalism... and underexposed film... Well, Roeper and Friend pronounced both No Country and Kiss Kiss to be noir, and Shorty was written by Elmore Leonard. I think that's enough to make them noir. I've read tons of Elmore... without ever once thinking of noir, iirc Of course, I certainly wouldn't gainsay Roeper (at least without a nearby Friend of my own)... but I think noir is about streetlamps and/ or headl... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: moviePig at December 11, 2007, 5:26 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | On Dec 11, 5:33 pm, nick wrote: Quote:On Dec 11, 4:43�pm, Harkness wrote: On Dec 11, 4:26 pm, Agent Smith wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. �What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. �:] recent? -- at least two of those films are �ten years old. anyway, they don't make film noirs any more because film noir is period. This might be a dumb question but when noirs were being made during the post-war period, was it a recognized genre, or did it only become one in retrospect? When people went to the movies and went to see something like Out of the Past or whatever, did they have the same awareness of what they were going to see and all the same preconceived genre expectations as, oh, teenage slasher fans or gros... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: nick at December 11, 2007, 5:26 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | On Dec 11, 4:43�pm, Harkness wrote: Quote:On Dec 11, 4:26 pm, Agent Smith wrote: I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. �What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. �:] recent? -- at least two of those films are �ten years old. anyway, they don't make film noirs any more because film noir is period. This might be a dumb question but when noirs were being made during the post-war period, was it a recognized genre, or did it only become one in retrospect? When people went to the movies and went to see something like Out of the Past or whatever, did they have the same awareness of what they were going to see and all the same preconceived genre expectations as, oh, teenage slasher fans or gross-out stoner comedy fans would toda... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Harkness at December 11, 2007, 5:26 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | On Dec 11, 4:26 pm, Agent Smith wrote: Quote:I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. :] recent? -- at least two of those films are ten years old. anyway, they don't make film noirs any more because film noir is period. They make neo-noir or they get all retro -- L.A. Confidential is the latter, The Lookout and Brick are the former. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is a wildly riffing satire on 80s crime movies. Memento is the one most in the ball park. John Harkness | | Static Link |
| Posted by: moviePig at December 11, 2007, 5:26 pm | | Topic: Modern Film Noir Forum: groupsrv | | On Dec 11, 4:26 pm, Agent Smith wrote: Quote:I wonder if film noir may be experiencing a recent resurgence, and the movies that make me think so are No Country for Old Men, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, LA Confidential, Get Shorty, its sequel & it's titular rip-off Get Carter, The Lookout. What other such films have I forgotten, since, say, LA Confidential won the Oscar? Hell, I think even Memento was film noir. :] THE LOOKOUT and L.A. CONFIDENTIAL maybe... but surely not NO COUNTRY, KISS KISS, or SHORTY. Afaik, noir takes more than a wry plot with a less-than-ebullient outcome. E.g., you need fatalism... and underexposed film... -- - - - - - - - - YOUR taste at work... http://www.moviepig.com | | Static Link |
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