| Posted by: Badbird at July 12, 2008, 10:41 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Don't forget that Spider Man was tied up in legal red tape for most of the decade. Otherwise James Cameron would have made his version in 1993. Not to mention Tim Burton's aborted Superman movie in 1998, as well as the aborted Hulk movie, also in 1998. The 90s would have been very different indeed, with Batman leading the way. Batman & Robin was a flop for sure, but Batman Forever was a big hit with an all star cast, and the franchise was still held in high regard the entire time, otherwise they would have never bothered with the reboot. X-Men certainly pushed a lot of projects over the edge, but you have to remember that back then, lots of people were very hesitant over the movie and it was seen as having a 50/50 chance of being good, or a complete disaster. Not even the studio had a tremendous amount of faith in the movie. They were testing the waters, hoping to repeat what Batman did a decade earlier. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: BubbaStrangelove at July 12, 2008, 6:06 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by fooknasty I just want him to branch out and do something different, just like the other directors I mentioned. It's no fun when you go to the movies and you know Burton's (M. Night and Bay) name is attached to a movie because you are going to get the same style of movie over and over. You could say that about pretty much any popular director. Hell, every movie Nolan has made has dealt with the pathos of the characters, and all are shot like it's an overcast day. Even directors like Kubrick and Ang Lee, who stretch genres more than most directors --- even they have a consistency that makes their movies distinct and obviously their own. You know what bugs me most about the "directors need to be more diverse" line of thinking? No one's favorite Martin Scorsese movie is Kundan. Fuck that movie! We want to see some violent underworld shit!!!! They should have cast motherfucking Joe Pesci as the Dalai Lama, and had more profanity. That shit would have been, as they say, off th... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Monotreme at July 12, 2008, 6:02 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | To The Heart Collector: By the time the whole Superman project thing came about, yeah - Burton had already directed two comic book adaptations. But before Batman, his movies were Pee-Wee's Big Adventure and Beetlejuice, not to mention the weird shorts. So Burton wasn't associated neither with comic book adaptations nor with big budget movies before that. Also, you see these geeky, self-proclaimed comic book fan directors all over now. Just look at Iron Man. Jon Favreau, a self-proclaimed Iron Man/comic books in general fan, was hired for the Iron Man film, I suppose, because Marvel trusted him to do justice to their work. And indeed we got a fun movie filled to the brim with these geeky in-joke references to the comics, etc. Kevin Smith, Joss Whedon... there are plenty such passionate comic book-fan directors probably itching to make such movies - so passionate that their previous efforts (Superman for Smith, Wonder Woman for Whedon) blew up in production. Maybe I'm wrong, and I definitely don't know enough ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Buck Turgidson at July 12, 2008, 1:48 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by The Heart Collector Where is this "pool of directors associated with the comic book world" that could have been hired, but weren't? In Kevin Smith's backyard this weekend, grilling ribs and chicken while doing the 7th rewrite of Jay And Silent Bob Join The Avengers | | Static Link |
| Posted by: wisdomsword at July 11, 2008, 6:07 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by spacemonkey Do you guys think that this level of realism came as a result of the success that the Bourne Identity movies had? I mean after the Bourne movies took off and became such huge box office successes (all of them)...it seems every other movie is doing the "reality" thing! Heck, even the bond movies, the ones with Daniel Craig (Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace) have gone this route. Things that happen in the movie are action packed but kept within believable standards. Nothing goes too over the top. Samething happened with the Batman movies with Batman Begins which took the more realistic route. I wonder how long before they divert to a more fantastical route again. Maybe a bit of off-topic here, but I wouldn't give credit the Bourne Identity on this matter here cause long before Bourne Identity, there was already the Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan series which was way more realistic than the Bourne series. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: The Heart Collector at July 11, 2008, 2:21 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by Monotreme But who do you think gave 20th Century Fox and Sony the idea of hiring a director not associated with neither the comic book world nor with blockbuster event movies ever before to helm a big-budget comic book movie? And who influenced Singer and Raimi to create their movies with just the right combination of comic book mythology and more serious mentality? If the answer to both of those questions is not Tim Burton's Batman, then you, my friend, are sadly blinded. Almost every part of this is wrong. First of all, you claim that 20th Century Fox and Sony had the idea of hiring a director not associated with the comic book world nor with blockbuster event movies because of Tim Burton's Batman. Half of that has a blatant problem: what is "a director associated with the comic book world"? Where is this "pool of directors associated with the comic book world" that could have been hired, but weren't? They don't exist, because there weren't many comic book mo... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: bigred760 at July 11, 2008, 2:14 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by The Heart Collector The reason why the Batman movies and the Bond movies are grounded in reality is because the last movies they made, which were campy, failed. No one likes failure. The pendulum is just swinging back. I agree with this; Batman & Robin sucked . . . and was a box office failure. Die Another Day, while a box office success, was a ridiculous mess (invisible cars?). While Bourne might have influenced the Bond reboot a bit, I don't think it had that much of an affect on Batman's. That had more to do with Christopher Nolan's vision (and that of David Goyer's). The Bond movies wanted to get back to the early Connery movies' style . . . get away from the gadgets, and back to the story and character. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: The Heart Collector at July 11, 2008, 2:03 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by spacemonkey Do you guys think that this level of realism came as a result of the success that the Bourne Identity movies had? I mean after the Bourne movies took off and became such huge box office successes (all of them)...it seems every other movie is doing the "reality" thing! Heck, even the bond movies, the ones with Daniel Craig (Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace) have gone this route. Things that happen in the movie are action packed but kept within believable standards. Nothing goes too over the top. Samething happened with the Batman movies with Batman Begins which took the more realistic route. I wonder how long before they divert to a more fantastical route again. I think you might be overestimating Bourne here. The first one wasn't such a huge success; it caught more on video. Then the 2nd one was more successful, then the last one more. The Bourne series has grown in prestige over time, rather than Bourne Supremacy coming out and everyone going "this i... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Buck Turgidson at July 11, 2008, 1:31 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by Monotreme to fooknasty, and to some of the others participating in this discussion: I think you missed the point when it was stated that Burton's "Batman" movie paved the way for the slew of serious comic book movies that have been released in recent years. There's no doubt about it that Bryan Singer's X-Men, and even more so Sam Raimi's Spider-Man paved the way for the comic book movie renaissance we have been experiencing, for better (X2, Spider-Man 2, Batman Begins) or worse (Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man 3) in recent years. Agreed. Quote: But who do you think gave 20th Century Fox and Sony the idea of hiring a director not associated with neither the comic book world nor with blockbuster event movies ever before to helm a big-budget comic book movie? Okay... Quote: And who influenced Singer and Raimi to create their movies with just the right combination of comic book mythology and more serious mentality? I can't go that far. Not really. For reasons already... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: fooknasty at July 11, 2008, 10:47 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by Monotreme But who do you think gave 20th Century Fox and Sony the idea of hiring a director not associated with neither the comic book world nor with blockbuster event movies ever before to helm a big-budget comic book movie? And who influenced Singer and Raimi to create their movies with just the right combination of comic book mythology and more serious mentality? If the answer to both of those questions is not Tim Burton's Batman, then you, my friend, are sadly blinded. I really believe that you are putting too much stock into the impact that Burton's movie had. So now it was 1989 Batman that showed studio execs that they don't need a big budget action director to helm a big budget action movie? I highly, highly doubt that. I really doubt, unless both Singer and Raimi actually said it, that they were influenced in any way by 1989 Batman and 1992 Batman Returns (I could be wrong if they actually did though). Comic book movies were down before Singer came in and made X-Men. X-Men... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: LordSimen at July 11, 2008, 9:46 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by Monotreme If the answer to both of those questions is not Tim Burton's Batman, then you, my friend, are sadly blinded. I'd also say that Tim Burton's Batman also gave Hollywood the idea of hiring Fanboy directors for Fanboy projects. Something even Richard Donner's Superman didn't even accomplish. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Monotreme at July 11, 2008, 9:39 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | to fooknasty, and to some of the others participating in this discussion: I think you missed the point when it was stated that Burton's "Batman" movie paved the way for the slew of serious comic book movies that have been released in recent years. There's no doubt about it that Bryan Singer's X-Men, and even more so Sam Raimi's Spider-Man paved the way for the comic book movie renaissance we have been experiencing, for better (X2, Spider-Man 2, Batman Begins) or worse (Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man 3) in recent years. But who do you think gave 20th Century Fox and Sony the idea of hiring a director not associated with neither the comic book world nor with blockbuster event movies ever before to helm a big-budget comic book movie? And who influenced Singer and Raimi to create their movies with just the right combination of comic book mythology and more serious mentality? If the answer to both of those questions is not Tim Burton's Batman, then you, my friend, are sadly blinded. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Buck Turgidson at July 10, 2008, 9:34 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by LordSimen But none of those films would ever have been made at the quality they were without Burton's Batman or Donner's Superman, the two comic book films which proved that even a comic book project can be taken seriously by Hollywood and given the utmost treatment by the Hollywood elite. I tend to agree. Although I think Burton's films are stylistically inferior to anything from Blade onward (and, incidentally, I'm glad to see that film, and it's even better sequel, get some well-deserved love here), they were financially successful and, more or less, serious films (especially compared to the Schumacher cowpies.) There is a steady progression from the first two Superman films through Burton's two (which I rank about equally...with the first maybe just a touch better), through to the present day. The fact that the studios treat comic properties as worthy of front line talent and budget doesn't guarantee equal results, but it's no longer a struggle to even get the idea through the... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: LordSimen at July 10, 2008, 9:31 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by fooknasty But Blade wasn't nearly as successful as X-Men was. But it was successful none the less. A successful comic book movie. Whether or not it was as successful as X-men has no baring on the fact that it came before X-men and was the start of the current comic book movie trend. Quote: Originally Posted by fooknasty This is includeing the fact that Blade had a huge movie star in Wesley Snipes headlining it's movie, while X-Men didn't have the name recognition it did (But had overwhelming unknown talent in Singer and Jackman). Blade was successful because of the popularity of Snipes (And I amno way taking away the fact that Blade was a good movie). Last I chicked, Halle Berry was a pretty big star before the X-men movies. Patrick Stewart was pretty recognizable and big as well due to his work on Star Trek. Even people who didn't watch the show knew him from there. Blade may have been successful because of the popularity of Snipes, but that doesn't take away the fact that it was... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: fooknasty at July 10, 2008, 9:24 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by LordSimen Everything you just stated Singer did, Blade did before it. But Blade wasn't nearly as successful as X-Men was. Blade made about $70 million ($130 worldwide) where X-Men made $157 million ($296 worldwide).This is including the fact that Blade had a huge movie star in Wesley Snipes headlining it's movie, while X-Men didn't have the name recognition it did (But had overwhelming unknown talent in Singer and Jackman). Blade was successful because of the popularity of Snipes (And I am no way taking away the fact that Blade was a good movie). Plus, X-Men met with a lot of positive reviews, where Blade was mixed. I guarantee studios didn't look at Blade and X-Men the same way. Once X-Men rocked the shit out of people with a great story, acting, and directing (and no major stars) studios realized they could safely bank on a comic book franchise. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: LordSimen at July 10, 2008, 9:18 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by fooknasty I just don't believe that Burton's Batman, after 11 years, was supposedly the movie that paved the way for the new comic book movies. After X-Men, studios realized that they could make comic book source material successful. I just don't believe that 11 years after Burton's Batman, studio execs said "Well in 1989, Batman was successful, therefore we should attempt X-Men and Spider-Man". X-Men brought the superhero genre back into relevancy, and not just with comic book geeks, but with everyone. If X-Men would have tanked, both critically and financially, no way would we have seen another 2 X-Men movies, let alone a Spider-Man franchise, 2 Hulk movies, and now 2 Batman movies. Singer put superhero movies on the map, and created a universe where you could place superheores and villians into a real world setting and take them seriously (But most importantly have them be successful financially and with the critics). In my opinion, he is responsible for 2 or 3 comic ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: fooknasty at July 10, 2008, 8:56 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | I just don't believe that Burton's Batman, after 11 years, was supposedly the movie that paved the way for the new comic book movies. After X-Men, studios realized that they could make comic book source material successful. I just don't believe that 11 years after Burton's Batman, studio execs said "Well in 1989, Batman was successful, therefore we should attempt X-Men and Spider-Man". X-Men brought the superhero genre back into relevancy, and not just with comic book geeks, but with everyone. If X-Men would have tanked, both critically and financially, no way would we have seen another 2 X-Men movies, let alone a Spider-Man franchise, 2 Hulk movies, and now 2 Batman movies. Singer put superhero movies on the map, and created a universe where you could place superheores and villians into a real world setting and take them seriously (But most importantly have them be successful financially and with the critics). In my opinion, he is responsible for 2 or 3 comic book heroes every summer now. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: LordSimen at July 10, 2008, 8:34 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by fooknasty Blade was nowhere near as critically or financially successful as X-Men. Singer was the one who reinvented the comic book movie. But it was successful none-the-less and it was made before X-men. A successful comic book film that not only signified a change for Marvel's film future but also was the start of the modern comic book film trend. Consider Blade a test run, if you will, for what was to come. A movie was made on one of Marvel's most unknown characters and it managed top be both critically and financially successful and notice how after that movie was made, Marvel's bigger characters started to gain footing in the movie world. After Blade it was X-men, and after X-men there was no doubt about it. But none of those films would ever have been made at the quality they were without Burton's Batman or Donner's Superman, the two comic book films which proved that even a comic book project can be taken seriously by Hollywood and given the utmost treatment by the Hollywoo... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: fooknasty at July 10, 2008, 8:28 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by LordSimen Batman paved the way for Singer. Superman paved the way for Batman and Singer. In fact, before Singer there was Stephen Norrington's Blade just a year or two before it. And it was a superhero movie based on a comic that took it's material seriously and made a lot of doe, and was popular enough to garnish 2 sequels. Blade was nowhere near as critically or financially successful as X-Men. Singer was the one who reinvented the comic book movie. In no way shape or form was Burton responsible for Raimi's Spider-Man, Nolan's Batman, or Del Toro's Hellboy. Singer had to overcome the titanic critical and financial failures of the last two Batman movies, and had the major task of taking unknown actors and source material (unknown to those outside of the comic book world) and creating a world anyone could enjoy. After Singer's massive success, we had 2 more X-Men, 3 Spider-Man movies, and a reinvention of the Batman franchise all within 5 years. (That's not even adding the little ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: LordSimen at July 10, 2008, 8:16 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by fooknasty I would have to say that it was Singer's X-Men (2000) that really paved the way for comic book movies to be taken seriously. That movie showed that even outrageous source material (humans as mutants) could be taken seriously. Before that, comic book movies were not as popular and were considered a joke. Singer paved the way for movies like Spider-Man, Batman, Hellboy, etc. Not Tim Burton. Batman paved the way for Singer. Superman paved the way for Batman and Singer. In fact, before Singer there was Stephen Norrington's Blade just a year or two before it. And it was a superhero movie based on a comic that took it's material seriously and made a lot of doe, and was popular enough to garnish 2 sequels. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: wisdomsword at July 10, 2008, 7:56 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by fooknasty I would have to say that it was Singer's X-Men (2000) that really paved the way for comic book movies to be taken seriously. That movie showed that even outrageous source material (humans as mutants) could be taken seriously. Before that, comic book movies were not as popular and were considered a joke. Singer paved the way for movies like Spider-Man, Batman, Hellboy, etc. Not Tim Burton. Agree! X-men have set the standard. Too bad X-Men3 and Spiderman3 couldn't live up to such standard. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: fooknasty at July 10, 2008, 7:26 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | I would have to say that it was Singer's X-Men (2000) that really paved the way for comic book movies to be taken seriously. That movie showed that even outrageous source material (humans as mutants) could be taken seriously. Before that, comic book movies were not as popular and were considered a joke. Singer paved the way for movies like Spider-Man, Batman, Hellboy, etc. Not Tim Burton. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Badbird at July 10, 2008, 5:47 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by Hey Man It amazes me that people say without Tim Burton's Batman - we wouldn't have other comic book movies ala X-MEN or Spiderman. I call bullshit. Do you really think that a movie studio wouldn't have tried another superhero movie from when Superman IV was produced until now??? Especially with the CGI technology as it developed. Batman 1989 may have opened the door first, but someone else would have done it if not that film. Look at it this way: Batman paved the way for good superhero movies. Superman 3 and 4 pretty much tried to bury the genre and it was pretty much written off as kid's stuff. Batman showed you can make a really good movie and it can appeal to adults and kids. It took a while to get going. The studios were very hesitant in the 90s, which is why besides Batman, the only comic book stuff you saw was second and third tier stuff like Judge Dreadd, Blade, Barb Wire, The Crow, etc. (Even Tank Girl got a movie...). But they were clearly testing the waters to see if th... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: spacemonkey at July 10, 2008, 4:11 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | By the time Superman IV came out, comic book movies werent taken seriously. They were always some sort of a joke. Just look at Supermans III through IV, and Supergirl. THose films were charades. A far cry from the excellent first Superman film that came out in 78. In reality, Donners Superman was the first great comic book movie. But non others came after that. In comes Burtons Batman, dark, stylish, adult oriented but still had that comic book humour and style. It still had that level of dark fantasy. And it hadnt been done before. Before Burtons Bat, comicbook movies were just silly little movies made for kids. But it was Burtons Batman that showed them different. After that comic book movies became summer blockbusters. And it all changed after that. But it was Burtons Batman that showed them the way. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Hey Man at July 10, 2008, 3:14 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | It amazes me that people say without Tim Burton's Batman - we wouldn't have other comic book movies ala X-MEN or Spiderman. I call bullshit. Do you really think that a movie studio wouldn't have tried another superhero movie from when Superman IV was produced until now??? Especially with the CGI technology as it developed. Batman 1989 may have opened the door first, but someone else would have done it if not that film. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: robk at July 10, 2008, 1:31 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by brodeurnumber1 It fit Jack like a glove because it was basically written for Jack and it was more or less Jack being Jack. Yeah, in other words, it was perfect casting. I'm not saying Heath isn't(wasn't?) up to the task, I'm just saying that Jack was to the Joker what Karloff was to the Frankenstein Monster. I must say, though, that Heath's Joker makeup isn't as freaky as Jack's. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Monotreme at July 10, 2008, 9:54 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Well, I think the consensus, which I also happen to agree with, seeing as Tim Burton IS my all-time favourite director, is as such: Burton and Nolan, both incredibly talented directors, have both made Batman movies, where each director's vision is so completely different from the other's that it's literally impossible to compare them as films in the same franchise. Burton's vision, in step with the visual style of pretty much all of his films, is dark, gothic and highly stylized, though not in the campy sense as the old comics/TV show/Joel Schumacher movies but rather stylized in that unique Burtonesque, Expressionist style. If anything, his Batman movies are amazing achivements in fantasy production design, and the musical score by Danny Elfman is divine. But really, the movies themselves are totally brilliant in Burton's highly stylized way - his vision of Batman/Bruce Wayne as a quirky, geeky, reclusive, rejected outsider out for revenge but also out to fight villains that seem to be drawn to him because ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: vdtdcut5145 at July 9, 2008, 12:59 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | I personally think, even after all these years after seeing it when I was 5, It still hold up fantastically well. Especially when you consider the shit Burton had to deal with while directing Batman, you have to commend him for what he did with Batman '89. To what some people have said on this thread: - Showing people Comic book movies can have quality stories - Showing Comic Book movies can be successful, economically - Showing the mainstream audience the darker side of Batman - Again, Making a Good movie with shitty circumstances (Producers Peters and Guber made directing Batman for Burton a near-nightmare) I still hold it high enough that in my rankings, I still have Batman '89 1st, followed by Begins, followed by Returns...Though TDK may take the #1 from what I hear and see. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: fooknasty at July 8, 2008, 12:05 pm | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by Shockwave Good acting and writing can make u believe ANYTHING. Sell the product! Its why i bought that Superman turned back time at the end of the original Superman, depsite how utterly silly that actualy was. Earth should have spun out of orbit killing everyone on the planet. That's exactly why I ldislike the Superman franchise so much. He can just spin the world around and make everything better if he screws up? *Shutters* Anyways, I think the reason the Batman and James Bond movies decided to ground themselves in realism is because both franchises realized how ridiculously over the top both had become. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Shockwave at July 8, 2008, 10:26 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by LordSimen I agree with you. Unfortunately, not a lot of other people do. Tons of people I've talked to in reference to that film will hate it simply because the science fiction and fantasy elements that occur towards the end of the film. A lot feel it was out of place. To me, it felt like it belonged but that's just me. Without a doubt. One of my favorite movies of the year. The fantasy elements fit perfectly to me, and i wouldnt mind at all if Nolan introduced such elements in his Batman films. Its themes ran very deep, and some of the movies final scenes were extremely powerful and stayed with me long after the movie ended. Good acting and writing can make u believe ANYTHING. Sell the product! Its why i bought that Superman turned back time at the end of the original Superman, depsite how utterly silly that actualy was. Earth should have spun out of orbit killing everyone on the planet. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: LordSimen at July 8, 2008, 10:18 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by Shockwave Look at THE PRESTIGE. That movie OWNED. Love that. Even when it introduced super science and true magic into the picture, it was how the characters reacted to it that made me beleive it was real. I agree with you. Unfortunately, not a lot of other people do. Tons of people I've talked to in reference to that film will hate it simply because the science fiction and fantasy elements that occur towards the end of the film. A lot feel it was out of place. To me, it felt like it belonged but that's just me. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Shockwave at July 8, 2008, 10:15 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by spacemonkey Do you guys think that this level of realism came as a result of the success that the Bourne Identity movies had? I mean after the Bourne movies took off and became such huge box office successes (all of them)...it seems every other movie is doing the "reality" thing! Heck, even the bond movies, the ones with Daniel Craig (Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace) have gone this route. Things that happen in the movie are action packed but kept within believable standards. Nothing goes too over the top. Samething happened with the Batman movies with Batman Begins which took the more realistic route. I wonder how long before they divert to a more fantastical route again. I think thats alot to do with it, yes. I was thinking about that the other day, how the Bond movies have taken a more realistic route with things, and i do think they were "inspired" to do so from the Bourne movies. I also think its just a matter of damn good writing. Nolan could toss aro... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: spacemonkey at July 8, 2008, 9:25 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Do you guys think that this level of realism came as a result of the success that the Bourne Identity movies had? I mean after the Bourne movies took off and became such huge box office successes (all of them)...it seems every other movie is doing the "reality" thing! Heck, even the bond movies, the ones with Daniel Craig (Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace) have gone this route. Things that happen in the movie are action packed but kept within believable standards. Nothing goes too over the top. Samething happened with the Batman movies with Batman Begins which took the more realistic route. I wonder how long before they divert to a more fantastical route again. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Shockwave at July 8, 2008, 8:36 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by LordSimen . It's only a matter of time before TAS (which was fucking inspired by Burton's take, by the way) starts getting shit on once they're done throwing dirt on Burton's good name. TAS is the gold standard on how to do Batman right. Everything about that show they got right. The feel of Batman, The classic Batmobile, the fact that hes not a constant hard-ass, Robin, Alfred, the super-narutal element, the sci-fi villians, the fucking PITCH PERFECT JOKER, everything about that series rocked hard core. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: LordSimen at July 8, 2008, 8:13 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by spacemonkey But hey, I find it funny, no one bashes on Schumachers films. Now theres two Bat films that should be bashed upon on a constant basis, NOT Burtons gothic classics. Because for some inexplicable reason Nolan fanboys have to be the most obnoxious bunch, doing everything they can to promote their movie and tear down any other previous incarnation of Batman that ever existed in order to somehow boost their fanboy credibility. It's only a matter of time before TAS (which was fucking inspired by Burton's take, by the way) starts getting shit on once they're done throwing dirt on Burton's good name. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: spacemonkey at July 8, 2008, 7:50 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by Hey Man The fact of the matter is that Nolan brought Batman to whole other level and quite simply has done a better job compared to Burton on pretty much every level. The stories/characters are better developed, the cast is better, the direction is better and there really isn't much for anyone to complain about. Like I said before, Tim Burton made a Tim Burton movie first, a Joker movie second and a Batman movie third. Fact. I dont understand the Burton bashing, I just dont get it. They are both drastically different takes on the same character. Drastically different directors giving their bat films their own personal touch. Burtons film has many merits. Number one, it showed that comic book movies could be darker, more adult oriented. And that they could be taken seriously as money makers. Only one other series of films had done that in the past. Donners Superman. And those films deluted into a joke after the second one. BAtman brought back that big budget, dark, adult fantasy el... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Shockwave at July 8, 2008, 7:15 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by MisterTwister I can see why he doesn't want Robin. But if he could do him right, that would be sweet. What do you mean no Batmobile? The Tumbler is the Batmobile. Yeah it's not called that and it looks different than we're used to it, but in Nolan's universe, that's what it is. I like how different it is to the previous versions (the one in Forever was shit). I think the Tumbler/Batmobile is pretty fucking cool. I think The Tumbler is way cool, but in now way is it the Batmobile. Thats probably why they called it something completely different rather then trying to pass it off. The thing i giggle about, is that no matter how "real" Nolan tries to makes things, hes still got a buy who dresses up as a flying rat to go out and fight crime with karate. Fantasy is a HUGE part of Batman, its a HUGE part of Batman RIGHT NOW in the comics, even with the fucking AWESOME Batman RIP storyline going on atm. To take that out would pretty much be to destroy a large part of what made B... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: hrdude at July 8, 2008, 3:37 am | | Topic: Tim Burton Has To Know He Fucked Up Forum: JoBlo | | I don't read comic books, but I enjoyed Batman '89. My upbringing was with the camp batman and the 89 version added a dark side to it which I loved. And I really doubt Tim Burton is crying in his cups however good Nolans version is. | | Static Link |
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