| Posted by: john_rambo at June 3, 2008, 10:32 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Well I feel like a complete moron i even searched for an american history x thread and did not find it.... i made a new one today and here this one is two weeks old.... anyway this is not one of my new favorites... loved every second of it. 10/10 | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Benj at June 3, 2008, 7:58 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by fever55 I actually found his transformation believable, especially after he got raped. He realized that the black guy (forgot his name) was the sole reason why he even survived in jail, and ultimately realized that there's good and bad of all races. It was his brothers instant transformation at that end that I found unbelievable. BTW, the guy that did the news scene wasn't Norton. It was another actor playing the younger Derek Vineyard. No, it was definitely Norton. Anyways, I really like this movie. It always brings up very important discussions whenever I watch it. The one heated debate I truly always get into though, is how people say some of the points Derek made as a neo-nazi made sense, which I couldn't agree with at all. Derek was under the brainwash of a new form of dictator, one who doesn't go straight to the top, but infects the minds of the youth with his propaganda at a young age. It's important for me to note that this was not Derek the entire time he was like this, h... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Bourne101 at June 3, 2008, 7:15 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by Lindsey Now THAT would be awesome! I'm surprised that some people are just seeing it for the first time! It would be awesome, but I've seen a couple of scenes that were in the NC-17 version and they are extremely dark and offensive. Much worse than anything in the movie. I can see why they didn't make the cut. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Lindsey at June 3, 2008, 6:04 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by Mopar Fanatic I would have like to seen the original uncut version which was granted an nc-17. Now THAT would be awesome! I'm surprised that some people are just seeing it for the first time! 10/10 for me. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: eljefe15 at May 25, 2008, 1:40 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | This solidified my being a fan of Edward Norton. This movie could have gone so terribly wrong but it turned out to be one of my favorite Norton performances ever. Plus he's diesel in this movie! Talk about a body transformation. It's much easier to eat a bunch of doughnuts and gain 40 pounds than do what Norton did. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: DreadShamus at May 25, 2008, 12:25 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by Lazy Boy 7/10 Norton's very good in it, and there are some shocking, indelible scenes (curb stomp, Norton's angry rant on the television news) but I didn't buy his transformation completely once entering prison. Something, I think, was lost in the "battle," so to speak, between him and director Tony Kaye over edit of the film, creating a flawed film with many good qualities. Although, watching the pompous and overlong Kaye documentary Lake of Fire a few months ago, I'd say Norton did overall look good in the end as to whose vision was indeed the sharper. I completely understood the transformation. He was surrounded by fake Nazis who went against everything they claimed to stand for. Dealing drugs to each other and forming deals with minority groups in prison. This allowed him to look outside of what had suddenly become a flawed and false Nazi Ideal. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Mopar Fanatic at May 25, 2008, 2:04 am | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | I would have like to seen the original uncut version which was granted an nc-17. The deleted scenes don't compensate for the original rating in the special features. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Tony Kaye fussed profusely that they should change The director to humpty dumpty(referring to it being chopped and butchered and then being put back together again). | | Static Link |
| Posted by: TeeRay at May 25, 2008, 1:52 am | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | I saw this for the first time today. This is one of the most powerful films ever. Edward Norton gave one of the greatest performances i've ever seen in a movie. And that ending, holy shit. It broke my heart. *spoilers below* I want to run my theory as to why Danny got shot in the end. My thinking is that it's karmic payback for Derek due to his past blind hatred, and he experiences what Danny went through when he saw Derek curb stomp the guy breaking into his car (what goes around, comes around). The kid who shot Danny was using the same over-excessiveness that Derek used when he murdered the guys breaking into his car. Both Danny and the guys breaking into Derek's car showed disrespect, but both situations didn't have to end in murder. Thoughts? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: fever55 at May 19, 2008, 7:13 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: I still found his transformation too easy/simplistic for the exact reasons you mentioned, all it took was a little anal raping for him to come to that conclusion? It was not only the rape, but the fact that a black guy was the only real friend he made in jail, and was the sole reason for him surviving. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: justin99justin at May 19, 2008, 5:57 am | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | good I still found his transformation too easy/simplistic for the exact reasons you mentioned, all it took was a little anal raping for him to come to that conclusion? ...and, are we talking about the same news broadcast, where Derek goes off on the start of a racist rant after what happened to his dad? I thought that was Norton. Maybe I'm confused. http://yourfreemoviedownloads.com | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Payne by name at May 19, 2008, 2:58 am | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | I feel his quick transformation ultimately came down to a realisation of how almost everyone are hypocrites. He had some beliefs and ideals that he stuck rigidly to yet despite people agreeing with him they never practiced what they preached. The different races slated each other off yet then dealt with them for monetary gain. When you repeatedly face this kind of duplicity and lack of principles you just think 'what's the point'? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Lazy Boy at May 17, 2008, 12:37 am | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | I agree that it was more through Derek's conversations and eventual opening up to the black inmate (Guy Torry) that he was able to have a change of heart, but I still think it was simplistic. "People are people, so why can't we all just get along?" Sort of the proselytizing suited to something like Crash. Heavy handed is another word. Sometimes I'm more of a "speak softly" rather than "carry a big stick" kind of person. I concede your point that the film is more than my facetious comment, and that there is an arc for Derek. I guess I was more convinced by his descent into racism than his ascent out of it. But what you say makes more sense. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Mr.HyDe807 at May 17, 2008, 12:12 am | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | :SPOILERS TO BE SAFE!: Quote: Originally Posted by Lazy Boy I still found his transformation too easy/simplistic for the exact reasons you mentioned, all it took was a little anal raping for him to come to that conclusion? ...and, are we talking about the same news broadcast, where Derek goes off on the start of a racist rant after what happened to his dad? I thought that was Norton. Maybe I'm confused. I don't think it was just the "anal raping", i took his transformation over the more he spent time with the black prisoner he was working with in the prison laundromat, as well as realizing what a double standard the Nazi coalition was. I took it like Furlong's character said at the end, "life's too short to be pissed off all the time", and Norton's character was probably realizing that when he was in the joint, finding out all the cracks that were in the group he was running in, as well as having a relationship with a different race and actually listening to them, rather than just simply ... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: Lazy Boy at May 16, 2008, 10:57 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by fever55 I actually found his transformation believable, especially after he got raped. He realized that the black guy (forgot his name) was the sole reason why he even survived in jail, and ultimately realized that there's good and bad of all races. It was his brothers instant transformation at that end that I found unbelievable. BTW, the guy that did the news scene wasn't Norton. It was another actor playing the younger Derek Vineyard. I still found his transformation too easy/simplistic for the exact reasons you mentioned, all it took was a little anal raping for him to come to that conclusion? ...and, are we talking about the same news broadcast, where Derek goes off on the start of a racist rant after what happened to his dad? I thought that was Norton. Maybe I'm confused. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: fever55 at May 16, 2008, 10:16 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by Lazy Boy 7/10 Norton's very good in it, and there are some shocking, indelible scenes (curb stomp, Norton's angry rant on the television news) but I didn't buy his transformation completely once entering prison. Something, I think, was lost in the "battle," so to speak, between him and director Tony Kaye over edit of the film, creating a flawed film with many good qualities. Although, watching the pompous and overlong Kaye documentary Lake of Fire a few months ago, I'd say Norton did overall look good in the end as to whose vision was indeed the sharper. I actually found his transformation believable, especially after he got raped. He realized that the black guy (forgot his name) was the sole reason why he even survived in jail, and ultimately realized that there's good and bad of all races. It was his brothers instant transformation at that end that I found unbelievable. BTW, the guy that did the news scene wasn't Norton. It was another actor playing the younger Derek V... | | Read Entire Entry |
| Posted by: fever55 at May 16, 2008, 10:13 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | It's a good movie with some flaws that's mainly carried by Norton's performance. I actually believe it's overrated, at least on IMDb, where it currently has an 8.6 rating and is ranked #39 on the top 250 list. With that said, it's FAR better than Crash and is, IMO, second to Spike Lee's "Do The Right Thing" when it comes to movies on racism. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Payne by name at May 16, 2008, 2:45 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | I thought it a very impressive film. Many have spoken about the performances and Norton is incredible, particularly the dinner table scene. What impressed me most though was the balance within the film. Although a racist, there were some things in Norton's rhetoric that you kind of agreed with and naturally some things that you didn't. It would have been very easy to make him out to be a completely unsympathetic monster. Yet the makers rewarded the intelligence of the audience and provided a fair balance of both good and bad characters from both races. An excellent, thought provoking film that gave the viewer much to contemplate long after it had finished. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: tbone at May 16, 2008, 2:17 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by Lazy Boy 7/10 Norton's very good in it, and there are some shocking, indelible scenes (curb stomp, Norton's angry rant on the television news) but I didn't buy his transformation completely once entering prison. Something, I think, was lost in the "battle," so to speak, between him and director Tony Kaye over edit of the film, creating a flawed film with many good qualities. Although, watching the pompous and overlong Kaye documentary Lake of Fire a few months ago, I'd say Norton did overall look good in the end as to whose vision was indeed the sharper. I give it a slightly higher rating, but I mostly agree with you here. Still Norton was terrific in the movie | | Static Link |
| Posted by: JackassFan at May 16, 2008, 12:54 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by JJFlamingo Classic Grand Masterpiece, Norton was robbed of his Oscar here... I definitely agree with that. Although Norton is always an amazing actor in everything he does, this was one of his best performances. If anything deserved an award that year, it was him. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Lazy Boy at May 16, 2008, 9:57 am | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | 7/10 Norton's very good in it, and there are some shocking, indelible scenes (curb stomp, Norton's angry rant on the television news) but I didn't buy his transformation completely once entering prison. Something, I think, was lost in the "battle," so to speak, between him and director Tony Kaye over edit of the film, creating a flawed film with many good qualities. Although, watching the pompous and overlong Kaye documentary Lake of Fire a few months ago, I'd say Norton did overall look good in the end as to whose vision was indeed the sharper. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Derrida at May 16, 2008, 9:53 am | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Great to see all the love for this fantastic film. I remember seeing this film in an epmty cinema, not knowing what to expect. Like most of you, I was blown away by Norton's performance (I'd only seen him in the excellent Prinmal Fear). I thought Beverly D'Angelo should get a mention as she is excellent as the mum. Anyone know when the anniversary edition is due out? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: nayland at May 16, 2008, 7:44 am | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | AMERICAN HISTORY X is probably one of the most underrated movies that i can think of. Edward Norton did give a oscar worthy performance. It was one of those movies that sucked you in and didn't let go. That movie didn't make stuff up it showed us things that really exist in our world. Which i think is the scariest thing about the movie. When he stomps the guys head on the curb!! Even though they don't show it you know what happens. I think it had more impact by letting your own mind vision what happened. Even my head hurt after that scene!! It is without a doubt a must see movie! | | Static Link |
| Posted by: God of War at May 16, 2008, 6:27 am | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Yeah, it needs that kinda "Alien 3" gritty feeling to it, dude. But the way things are going, I wouldn't be too surprised if American History X gets the remake treatment within the next few years. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: EVILxxx at May 16, 2008, 5:03 am | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | I'm going to go against the grain a bit here and say it is a very good movie, but overrated. Norton of course was excellent, but a gritty feel was sorely missed here and would have served the film well, especially during the prison sequences. 8/10 | | Static Link |
| Posted by: God of War at May 16, 2008, 4:23 am | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | It's always been my favourite Ed Norton movie. When I made that skinhead movie topic. It was top of the list. A very powerful film alround. 10/10 | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Natty at May 16, 2008, 12:35 am | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Only watched it once and would like to watch it again as it is one of my favs. Norton was indeed brilliant and Furlong wasn't bad either. The supporting cast were great too, Torry made me laugh with his Lamont and Balk made me want to give her a slap due to her convincing portrayal of Stacey. As for the message and values, I think this is deeper than a 'racism is bad' movie but then again I do have a racist friend who I often tell to watch this movie some day (he's always startin with the 'n***er bullshit' type thing that Derek's dad talks about). A fantastic script and direction too, one of the best movies of the 90's. 9/10 | | Static Link |
| Posted by: Tweek at May 15, 2008, 11:02 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by vesaker This movie cemented Edward Norton as one ofthe great actors of our time for me (yes even more so then Fight Club). His character goes on such a journey of change throught the story that he can't even think of how his old freinds can think the way they do and the way he did, which for me is a huge part of Racisim since i look at it a 'why bother?'. And the ending, man....... I agree. Fight Club is one of my favorites but American History X is more... Powerful. But the two movies had different tones so... Whatever. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: bigred760 at May 15, 2008, 9:46 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Been a while since I've seen it, but remember it very well. Norton's performance is AWESOME and powerful!!! It is curious as what happened to his character after the movie's ending. Did he seek revenge, did he stay on his reformed track, what happened to him? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: BiffMcfly at May 15, 2008, 9:35 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Quote: Originally Posted by chinton As everyone else said amazing film. Although its funny I've seen this numerous times and the ending is still hard to watch. Very powerful ending. Also does anyone else find it interesting that for a movie with so many behind the scenes troubles the end product turned out to be great. Thats very rare. Ya it's surprising considering the director was section 8 while editing and wanted to change his name to Humpty Dumpty on the credits because he didn't get his way. Hopefully there will be a directors cut some day even though his cut was supposedly extremely racist and he cut 90% of Norton's scenes out. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: chinton at May 15, 2008, 9:11 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | As everyone else said amazing film. Although its funny I've seen this numerous times and the ending is still hard to watch. Very powerful ending. Also does anyone else find it interesting that for a movie with so many behind the scenes troubles the end product turned out to be great. Thats very rare. | | Static Link |
| Posted by: JJFlamingo at May 15, 2008, 6:39 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Classic Grand Masterpiece, Norton was robbed of his Oscar here... 10/10 How about a sequel? Did Norton stay on the straight and narrow after the events of the ending, or was his "motivation" gone?? | | Static Link |
| Posted by: vesaker at May 15, 2008, 3:01 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | This movie cemented Edward Norton as one ofthe great actors of our time for me (yes even more so then Fight Club). His character goes on such a journey of change throught the story that he can't even think of how his old freinds can think the way they do and the way he did, which for me is a huge part of Racisim since i look at it a 'why bother?'. And the ending, man....... | | Static Link |
| Posted by: FilmKing2000 at May 15, 2008, 2:58 pm | | Topic: American History X... Let's Discuss! Forum: JoBlo | | Wow, to tell you the truth, I haven't seen this film in SUCH a long time. But with that being said, there's no doubt in my mind that American History X is a supremely powerful experience, raw in delivery and merciless in the gut-punch of an impact it provides. Norton's performance is truly something of an admirable feat as well. With the dvd sitting right on my shelf, I'm actually going to try and give this a re-watch. Will post my reaction later. | | Static Link |
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